Hola Hola Chula. Hi there. We are experts in intuitive eating for on again off again chronic dieters and we are here to help you take the guilt and stress out of eating so you can become the first in your family to break the diet cycle just like we are in our families. We want you to be who you are without food guilt. Be sure to follow us on Instagram. No more guilt for Melissa and your Latina nutritionist for Dalina.
Dalina Soto 0:29
Are you ready? Let's break the diet cycle. Hola chulas It's me Dalina before we start I want to let you know that this episode is brought to you by you're not the nutrition but you're about to listen to is not a professional coaching or counseling session. Each episode is a one time conversation meant for educational purposes. We are dietitians but we're not your dietitian. Remember that podcasts don't constitute treatment. If you have concerns about your dying behaviors, seek out guidance from a medical or mental health professional and if you're looking for a community tools to ditch the diet, help with finding authentic health and keeping your culture alive. Join my membership brought to you by today's sponsor me.
Melissa Landry 1:20
Hola hola chulas I'm so excited. So excited because we hear the conversation about what do I do with my GI stuff when I'm trying to become an intuitive eater all the time and we have a wonderful guest to help us explore this today.
Dalina Soto 1:34
Yes, today we have Samina Karachi they say that right. Okay, did I just practice it like you just practiced? Perfect. I'm saying and I'm like crap, I think I've made that a little harder than it should have been. Okay. So yeah, we're so excited to have you. Can you introduce yourself for us?
Samina 1:56
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for the mini intro. Sabina. crashy is my name. I'm a registered dietician. And based in Houston, Texas, I am in private practice. I've been practicing for eight years and have had my practice for four years. It's called wholesome start, you may have seen me on Instagram, my handle is anti diet, IBS dietitian. And I just changed it. So that's why I had a little bit of a hiccup. But yeah, ultimately, I work with people one on one to help them learn how to heal their relationship with food. And along the way, we talk about those uncomfortable gut symptoms and how to find relief without rigid diets, stress, guilt, or shame.
Dalina Soto 2:42
Well, you know, we're all about that, literally, all of that. I think it's interesting because so many of our listeners, and even our clients are constantly talking about IBS symptoms. And sometimes I feel like people just use the word IBS, but they technically aren't even diagnosed with IBS. It's just like a term so many people just throw around. So before we even get started about this conversation, do you want to give us a little like, I don't know definition of what IBS actually is for our listeners to understand.
Samina 3:14
Yeah, and I think that's super common. Even with the people I have worked with. Oftentimes, they aren't diagnosed with IBS. IBS stands for irritable bowel syndrome. with IBS, the normal regulation of the gut brain interactions become altered, which changes the motility and sensation within the gut. What that means is it disturbs the natural gut process and could can produce symptoms like abdominal pain and discomfort, bloating, gas, and the change in bowel habits, which is that lovely diarrhea and constipation also, or, oh, yeah, love to talk about it. There's no shame in talking about your BMs. So yeah, it's common for people to throw around the word IBS Because oftentimes, it takes people like over five years just to get diagnosed, there's a long process of ruling out potentially what it could be right? So let's say you go to the doctor, okay, I have all these upset stomach issues, gaps, bloating, diarrhea, constipation and stomach pain, and they're like, oh, okay, take me relax, do some things, eat healthier, sometimes like say lose weight, which does not even relate and then they're like, Okay, I'm still struggling with this, should I go and see a GI doctor. And so they go to the GI doctor to rule out other conditions are looking at like celiac disease, right? You want to make sure you don't have IBD or ulcerative colitis and those types of conditions and that can be a really long drawn out process. And it sometimes weeds out people who may not have access to all of these health care means right and so I think that's why the term I have IBS or get issues kind of gets thrown around because there isn't a actual lab test to tell you that you have IBS. It is a collection of symptoms that happen kind of over time.
Melissa Landry 5:08
I think to a lot of clients report like, it's the access to care, but also like how exhausting it is to go through that. So even if you are lucky and privileged to have access to these providers and tests, it can feel so defeating to keep going back and be told like, oh, it's not that it's not that it's not that. So I just noticed a lot of people feeling really defeated when they can't get an answer. Do you find that in your practice?
Samina 5:31
Absolutely. And just because you don't have a diagnosis for something does not mean that you're not worthy of seeking out care, right? Because regardless of whether or not you have a diagnosis, you can still make different changes to the way you eat your mindset around food, which might impact how your digestion is.
Dalina Soto 5:54
I love that especially because I feel like a lot of times again, we rely on other people to tell us how our body's feeling. And I ultimately tell everyone, you're the one living in your body, you're the one that has these symptoms and feel these unfortunate discomforts. And so if you're telling me something's happening, I'm going to believe you and help you relieve those symptoms regardless, or not. If you have a diagnosis, right? Like, we don't need to have that name to it, in order to help you feel better now. So I love that you said that. So let's ask you the first question. We kind of got off topic. But I think that a lot of the time, we often feel like we need to restrict in order to see improvements with IBS. And so we wanted to ask you, how do you work with your clients to see improvements without restricting?
Samina 6:53
Yeah, so that is ultimately exactly what I do with my clients. When it comes to proper digestion. My philosophy is making sure that you're meeting your basic nutritional needs period, we have to start with a good foundation of having you nourish your body consistently and adequately throughout the day to make sure that your metabolism is running in an most optimal way for you and that your digestion has an opportunity to like actually function, right, you can't have a smooth, beautiful banana shaped bowel movement if there's no fuel going inside of your body, or if you're having just like irregular eating patterns. And so instead of starting right off the bat with elimination, you know, I screen all of my clients for potential of disordered eating or eating disorders. And if you do struggle with, you know, chronic dieting, or rigid food rules, in general elimination diets, like the low FODMAP diet may not be appropriate for you period. So we don't need to go ahead and jump into something that immediately looks that restriction, we need to look at how you're caring for your body on a regular basis. And not only nutritionally. We also need to see other aspects of your life and how that may be impacting your digestive symptoms. Because we know that IBS is that gut brain interaction disorder, stress is a huge factor in making the symptoms be aggravated and can contribute to making you feel worse. So not only you know, are we talking about adding in foods that can help you meet your nutritional needs and meet your fiber goals. Also talk about like stress management, physical activity or gentle movement. Hydration is extremely important, especially for my constipation peeps. And when I say physical activity, hydration, stress management and sleep hygiene. Well, I got to make sure that you're getting Yeah. Right. And so yeah, I don't immediately go into my approach with nutrition in a restrictive mindset. It's all about making sure you're meeting your basic needs. And then what can we add into your diet that can help round out some of the foods you're eating and meet your fiber goals so that you can have a nice smooth bowel movement.
Dalina Soto 9:05
So I have two questions for this. Because, you know, I, I'm very interested in I've gone to a few conferences where they talk about the brain gut connection, and you've said it twice already. Yeah, my list, but I need you to talk about it, because it's so interesting. And I'm often talking about it in the last club, but I would love to hear from you, if you could, you know, let our listeners know what this gut brain connection is.
Unknown Speaker 9:32
Right, So there is something called the vagus nerve. That is the connection between our different systems in the body and our brain communicates with our gut through the vagus nerve, and our gut actually communicates to our brain so there's not only a one way communication from our great brain toward gut, there's that bi directional communication. And so sometimes what that means is if you're looking at the foods you have access to You're scared to eat because of a previous experience and it causing symptoms just you thinking that can impact how you end up feeling and the symptoms that you experience. So a lot of the work I do with people is reframing situations and talking about experiences and kind of challenging the ideas we have around food. Because just because something happened once doesn't mean it's always going to happen. And so setting your body up to be in that rest and digest phase instead of the fight or flight can be very helpful in regulating the nervous system and that gut brain connection so that when you do eat, you're in that calm state, and it feels good, and you're able to move on with your day and not think about food or digestive symptoms
Dalina Soto 10:48
Love it, rest and digest. I love that because that's something that people don't really realize. We kind of need to let our body rest and digest the food that it that it's just consumed. And I think a lot of the times, we're so much in a rush to do everything. And just like the world is just so stressful as it is already that like, we just forget that. We're still like, we still need to live. Yeah. And a rough thing is okay, I don't know, Melissa, what do you think?
Melissa Landry 11:17
Well, I think like, it's twofold. It's like the pace of life and like regular stressors. And this totally resonates. I've heard clients talk about this before where like, the fear of Oh, my gosh, I'm at a restaurant, I have diarrhea, or I had a client who bought tickets to an event and her best friend was in town, and she was getting so worked up about maybe needing to leave that her symptoms are like going crazy. So this is a really important distinction. Like, I hope it's a relief to people listening, especially if you're clear, like I don't want to diet anymore. That's like super stressful, stressful for people to be like, I don't want to diet anymore. But I might have to die it because of these symptoms. Maybe the strategy first what you're saying are some years to like focus on that body mind connection, see if you can bring the stress down a little bit. What does that do for symptoms? And then you can start to explore. Is that kind of like the orderings?
Samina 12:09
That, yeah, so there are some foundations right? And like just kind of like you were saying, how do you slow down so then that aspect of like mindfulness comes into play with, you know, the first place we digest food is actually in our mouths. Like if you are going into a meal ravenous and super hangry, there's no space for mindfulness, there's no space to slow down with your meals. And that is naturally going to happen when you only have two seconds to eat. But over time, and you when you find time in your busy schedule to eat, how can you slow down and just make sure that you're chewing foods so that the natural enzymes in your saliva have an opportunity to meet with the food and start the digestive process? Yeah, there's definitely a lot to work towards when it comes to digestion that has absolutely nothing to do with even changing what you're eating.
Dalina Soto 13:04
I love that. I'm always talking about saliva enzymes. Always.
Samina 13:12
I'm a funny story about salivary amylase,
Dalina Soto 13:15
would you like to tell?
Samina 13:22
one time like my husband kissed my eye and I was like thinking oh, no, like the salivary amylase is gonna start decomposing my eyeball in some way. It's a weird thing. I had a weird thing. This was an undergrad and I was learning about the power of enzymes.
Melissa Landry 13:38
Like, what is the barrier on these guys? These enzymes? Yeah. Yeah. If I want to survive, I know. amylase is you know, obsessed with carbs. That's just its thing. You don't have to worry about any carbohydrates.
Dalina Soto 13:55
Gosh, I love this because like, I feel like oftentimes, a lot of people forget that as even as an intuitive eating dieticians we still have this huge scientific knowledge that we might not often be talking about in our posts because it's really hard. Nobody, nobody cares. The science
Melissa Landry 14:13
what is necessary? Like it's not Yeah, the exception to the rule is that you need specialized nutrition care. That's the reality and diet culture tells us that everybody needs hyper personalized specialized nutrition care. Yeah, we don't actually have a ton of evidence for that. We have evidence for adequacy, which Yeah, saying, Yeah, snap and you're like,
Samina 14:35
Yeah, I just resonate so much with what you guys saying even like having people heal their relationship with food, in turn, causes better digestion like the result is just a doesn't hurt. And if you're still having symptoms after we have done work to find balance with food and understand what a healthy relationship with food looks like for you, then we can address that in a gentle way,
Dalina Soto 15:05
which is the next question that I have, how do you approach elimination and reintroduction of foods, if now we have healed someone's relationship with food, and they're still having symptoms? As you know, FODMAP is like the thing that everybody wants to do. But how do you approach that?
Samina 15:25
Yeah, so first of all, I like to see whether or not that person is first of all screening for eligibility, the low FODMAP diet is actually contraindicated for people who have a history of chronic dieting, disordered eating and eating disorders. So right off the bat, if I know someone has been struggling with all those things, I'm not even going to talk about FODMAPs. If we move forward and decide that you, you know, want to take this approach with the FODMAP diet, there's a lot of misconceptions with what it is the low FODMAP diet is a short term elimination, or ultimately, two to six weeks of removing high FODMAP foods to see if they impact your digestive symptoms. Ultimately, people can find relief from their IBS symptoms within two weeks of doing low FODMAP. And at that two week point or the point of relief, we start to strategically at back in the foods that we were eliminating. And so the way we talk about which foods you want to prioritize adding in again, is what foods Did you miss the most, what foods culturally are significant for you that are definitely going to be present in all of the meals that you cook for me, I'm Pakistani, and the base of all of our foods is onion, garlic, and tomatoes. So we got to try those high FODMAP offenders first, if they're going to be the base of your food, and then strategically adding them back in. So ultimately, we can expand your diet, the purpose of the low FODMAP diet is not to restrict your diet to only to foods that you can eat it is to remove the triggers, add them back in strategically to see what impact they have, and then ultimately give you more options to eat so that you can feel good and more empowered to make choices that help you feel your best of it.
Dalina Soto 17:09
And unfortunately, I can't tell you how sad it is. Because I feel like garlic by Nance tomato are like the base for so many of our cultural foods. And I have had a few clients who you know, have had to definitely reduce their intake of of those. And it's so heartbreaking at times because we do cook a lot with them. And so what do you do with clients? If these foods happen to be a major irritant in their day? How do we navigate knowing that we can't have that? It's not because of diet reasons, but because they're actually irritating us, but they're still part of our culture.
Samina 17:50
Yeah, and I think that goes back to really that first like principle of like, ditching diet culture and letting go of like the rigid food rules. When it comes to gentle nutrition. You're ultimately doing things to make your body feel good. I'm sorry, there was a long pause there, but it was because I was trying to figure out you know,
Melissa Landry 18:10
Well gentle nutrition is a really tough Yeah, and and I think even as dietitians, we're always I think that's a really powerful skill, you have some you get a pause and say like, how do I frame this because our listeners are coming from diet culture. So I appreciate the nuance of that you're trying to tackle here,
Samina 18:27
right? So I feel like I have so much to say but there's a difference just like Dalina was kind of talking about between restricting because I can't have this I want to be healthy, or skinny, etc. Versus I can't have this right now because I'm trying to figure out what's bothering my stomach. And if we figure out that okay, ultimately I haven't had patients yet or clients that like completely cannot tolerate any onion or garlic. Once we do the low FODMAP elimination we strategically reintroduce them and we determine their personal tolerance level. Okay, know if that means that you for me, the more garlic garlic cloves in a recipe them the mo betta right, like, it's gonna be great. So if you find that, you know, garlic is the main thing that brings a lot of flavor and like just oomph to your dishes, how can we get that same flavor without maybe the FODMAP load. So there are ways that you can get like garlic infused oil, you can get onion infused oils, it definitely adds to the flavor of dishes, but ultimately, let's say you're making a stew, whatever type of stew and the base is onions and garlic and you end up using like two or three garlic cloves and half of an onion. You're not eating two or three garlic cloves and have you in in one sitting right it's cooked for this whole big pot and your whole family's eating it and you're eating with rice and lentils and beans and different things right. And so you're ultimately taking this You're away from those potential trigger foods by saying, like, I'm not eating this in half an onion sitting like, Yeah, maybe. So understanding your personal tolerance level, and then also accepting that with IBS, sometimes digestive distress and symptoms just happen. It is the nature of the condition and to be accepting and understanding that sometimes you're going to have flare ups despite how well you eat. And kind of having that IBS flare toolkit is what I talk about with my clients as well. Because even if let's say you eat non trigger foods for the rest of your life, there are other components or other factors that contribute to symptoms, stress, lack of sleep, and activity, poor hydration, right. And so taking the power away that like food is going to cure all is also can be can be very powerful.
Dalina Soto 20:58
I love that. I love that because this idea that food is medicine, it's so big and and people just feel like they can cure everything by just like eating well. And it's like there's not one way of eating that's going to make people live forever. And I think something that I often say to my clients is that sometimes you have to think about think of this as a medical intervention, right? Like when we're thinking about you know, whether or not you can't, you know, you're you have triggers. And we're talking about gentle nutrition. It's not it's not a diet, you're not doing this restriction, because you'll be in diet, because it's scary, because a lot of people do feel like they're going into diary territory. So thinking of it as a medical intervention of like, we want you to feel good in your body, we want you to feel comfortable in your body, we don't want you to eat something that's going to make you be in pain. Seeing it that way. reframing it helps a lot. But I'll tell you, I have one client who is you know, garlic is just, you know, it's so bad. It's so bad. And garlic, chicken, garlic, everything. If you're listening, you know, I'm talking about you, so hard.
Samina 22:09
It's hard. Yeah. So reframing I think helps
Melissa Landry 22:13
Coming off the nutrition as the sole be all end all. I think it's such a great takeaway, because if that's what does it and that doesn't even cause complete relief. When it fails. Of course, we're getting all anxious and stressed again. And so the such an empowering message that you're giving, like, yes, food is important. And so are all these other things, including acceptance of symptoms, and how are you kind to yourself when that happens. I think that's really similar to when people have binge eating disorder or go through binges. Like, even with your best understanding of your triggers and your toolkits. It might happen sometimes, and how are you to yourself when that happens? We're not perfect, our bodies aren't perfect. The whole relationship that intuitive eating offers, like how you frame and think about your experiences, it's just endless what's possible for you, if you can use that framework, instead of waiting for a list from somebody and I have so many clients who come from, I won't list the types of providers but they're not registered dieticians and they're giving these highly restrictive lists. And it doesn't make any sense. And I wonder sometimes if the providers care more about their authority in the relationship than they do for the person in front of them you know, like you need me to tell you what you can eat. I just love the empowerment that intuitive eating brings people who are suffering and struggling with something that's valid.
Dalina Soto 23:34
Mm hmm yeah, yes, this feels so we're all just like here like sitting in like the amazingness of the anti diet diet together like we are so on to something we we just like had this like face of like doesn't matter Oh, holy holy moments.
Samina 23:59
So funny. No, it's so nice to talk to people who just get it
Melissa Landry 24:04
Yeah, yeah, I can't help but testify.
Dalina Soto 24:09
it's really hard to find people that get it in in the grand look at like how this world works. Find out who your community support.
Melissa Landry 24:17
Yeah, and clients are and people are looking for this. I mean, that's one of the things we delete on here all the time. It's like I know I can't diet anymore but now what you know it's it's a kind of a scary feeling. Because even though it wasn't working it was the devil you knew to keep dieting so I hope it helps people to hear the excitement of us that our guests that this this is something of a new opportunity for you to live your life in a different way. That's that's what we're all looking for. For sure.
Dalina Soto 24:44
Do what's best for your body now. Taking it like one day one meal at a time. Can be perfect.
Samina 24:52
Yeah, yeah. And just like we were talking about, okay, you have flares. What do you do and you were talking about how do you be compassionate to yourself? In those moments, whether it's a binge that you ended up having or a flare with diarrhea and stomach pain, it's really important to know how to care for yourself in those moments instead of getting upset with yourself and, and kind of being in this negative headspace of like, well, why did this happen? Oh no, it's because of what I ate. Or it's because I did this or didn't do this and there's so much that nutrition therapy can offer. However, there's also a lot of grace and just having compassion for yourself and letting yourself figure it out as you go like we don't all have to be perfect and sometimes just by even doing everything right things happen and that's a part of life. It's really hard to accept.
Dalina Soto 25:46
A lot of people have such a hard time accepting that we we can't perfect ever it's never gonna happen we can never eat perfectly.
Melissa Landry 25:55
Why are you coming at me right now? Why are you coming out?
Dalina Soto 25:58
I didn't say anything.
Melissa Landry 26:02
You just did a whole episode on my perfectionism and the process I take I'm so good at helping other people's through it but myself is like a work in progress.
Dalina Soto 26:15
I just showed up late and I jokes I'm gonna You strike me as more money by variety of time. And I think we did just meet but I like the little spidey senses up. Oh no, you pick up why? Type A people make the world go round. We make things happen. We just have to not distract ourselves in the
Melissa Landry 26:38
fun and joyful. Yeah, dreams big. That's why I need Selena. She keeps me inspired and dreaming all the time.
Samina 26:45
Yeah, I feel like as a new mom, I've like entered this a little bit of a constant frazzled state. Yeah. leaning into it. I'm like, I'll just do what I can when I can. And it's hard.
Dalina Soto 26:58
How it's got it. It's definitely a whole mood lifted like this. I'll tell you that.
Melissa Landry 27:07
I don't think you have a nesting doll of home food with the kids. Brian schedule. Oh, yeah,
Dalina Soto 27:14
you got the I gotta know, I gotta go with the flow. I can't I cannot not go with the flow at this point in my life. But enough about me. takeaway points. So today, being nourished is by far the best thing you could do for yourself when it comes to having any GI symptoms. Because your GI symptoms could be happening because you are not nourished enough. And your GI tracts cannot function properly. If that is the case. So having enough is super, super important. So don't think that you need to jump into some restrictive diet, because oftentimes, that is not the answer. And two, I think, you know, that's what we learned the most from Samina is self compassion, right, that we can't be perfect and that flare ups will happen and they're not your fault. And we have to take it one day one meal at a time and you're going to be okay.
Samina 28:17
I know it says such a beautiful visual, isn't it?
Melissa Landry 28:20
I mean, close if ever you get a beautiful smooth banana poop, you find me the person that's not celebrating themselves when they're like, how about that? I feel like it's a good feeling. And that's it's okay to enjoy a nice quality. Oop. Shame pooping. It's okay.
Samina 28:42
Everybody poops? Yeah. Oops. And we all deserve to feel good when we poop.
Melissa Landry 28:51
We are poop pilot gas. That going we should like a little hashtag poo positivity? Actually, I don't even want to know the photographs that would be involved. Let's let's rethink that. Well, offline. Yeah, guys, I don't don't sue me. If you Google poop positive and you don't like what you know. I don't think I'm not responsible for whatever that is. Samina, I just enjoyed hanging out with you so much. You're awesome. Can you tell us how do people find you said your handle? Do you? Are you working with clients only in Texas. Tell us a little bit more about you as we close today.
Samina 29:27
Right So again, my instagram handle is anti diet dot IBS dot dietitian.
Melissa Landry 29:35
I put on show notes too. So they'll be able to click to Yeah.
Samina 29:39
I work with individuals across the country. I am signing people up for my 12 week IBS food Freedom program where I help you learn how to heal your relationship with food while addressing your uncomfortable gut symptoms. And yeah, I work with people one on one but I am working on a course that is going to launch soon. So if you just want information and to learn more? Stay tuned.
Dalina Soto 30:02
Yeah. Awesome. Thanks so much for being here.
Samina 30:06
Yeah, thank you guys for having me. This was so much fun.
Dalina Soto 30:08
Thanks to me now. We'll see you guys next time. All right, Mel mel, we just finished recording. Sorry, I love fell off a chair. But I agree.
Melissa Landry 30:19
Okay, first of all, she's so cute. Like, she's, she's just helping herself to some What is it cereal? She is helping herself and just look at you kind of like made eye contact with me. Like, look at me go.
Dalina Soto 30:32
And almost fall. Anyway, back to why we're here. You won't get all the bloopers from my kids. Like, do my kids not interrupt any episode that we ever make. I'm not even sure. But Samina knows, because she she has a new baby at home. She understands. But she was so good to talk to. And so encouraging for anybody who's on this journey. Because having GI symptoms as hard as it is, and then having diet culture bombarding you with all of these cure roles to supposedly make it go away. It's so hard.
Melissa Landry 31:05
Yeah, it's harsh. I don't know the exact statistic. I think I heard this on the maintenance phase podcast. But they had done some deep dive where they said that at any given time, 50% of the population could report having some sort of Gi symptom like diarrhea or constipation or gas, which makes so much sense like there is a normal experience that we have. And of course, there are people who might flare up or have extremes in those experiences. But like, what I'm trying to say is there's a huge market for people to sell you solutions that are you know, you're spending money you're spending time that could actually exacerbate it. And I love this kind of adding that little push back to say, You know what, what if we go back to basics, what if we think about water sleep, our stress levels, like that's really empowered.
Dalina Soto 31:55
Yeah. You know what this reminds me of a pharmacology class, I had to take ounce for my masters. Hello, I take pharmacology back. And actually back in the day, and I remember, we were talking about like gi drugs. And our professor was like, the number one cause of GI symptoms in the world is stress. We're all stressed all the time. Yeah,I just want you all to know that. So you can have GI symptoms, that does not mean that there's you know, something necessarily wrong with you. It's just part of being human.
Melissa Landry 32:26
Yep. And so her her method is helpful because they're sure of you could rule out the humanity of it. And then if there is something deeper going on, that's okay, too. You can work with that. This doesn't not at all us and you know, we both are really adamant about letting people know like medical nutrition therapy is not at odds with intuitive eating, you know that that is something that can nestle really nicely and Samina showed us how with GI stem, which is confusing, and I hope you've enjoyed our talk about amalyase. Amalayse it's our favorite enzyme favorite. So saltine crackers to get all mushy and soft on your tongue.
Dalina Soto 33:07
Yeah breakthough them shut those down. Okay, okay, enough about the sciency stuff.
Melissa Landry 33:12
Thank you all for being here and listening to us and you know, we would love for you to leave us a review wherever you found us. Share Share Share with everyone apparently Spotify let us know that people were listening us in 42 new countries this year like 40 Do you think now if we go to like any of those countries we could find listeners and have a meal with them or something and they already crazy. Reach out. We want to travel and we do appreciate you guys though and truly like getting messages from you hearing how you're using the podcast makes our day this is a bit of a passion project for me Angelina. So yeah, love that it's helping you and inspiring you because what you're doing matters. So we will see you on Instagram between our recordings. And we want you to keep being who you are. Love and break that cycle.
